Cultural Context Preceding the Book of Mormon, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/493__Brent_Metcalfe_Part_1.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/494__Brent_Metcalfe_Part_2.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-497-BrentMetcalfePt3.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-498-BrentMetcalfePt4.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-499-BrentMetcalfePt5.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-499b-BrentMetcalfePt6.mp3, https://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/trackingconfessions1.htm, Signature Books Mormon News, October 1317. Please, God, let this podcast inspire someone to produce a talk show called, Hot-tubbing with Mark Hoffman! Mark Metcalfe Project Manager - Heavy Lift Division at Western Mechanical Electrical Millwright Services Ltd. Kitchener, Ontario, Canada 500+ connections Brent Metcalf is entering his fifth season as a full-time assistant coach on Iowa State's wrestling staff. Coming from similar backgrounds, Mark and Brent subsequently began working together on finding and authenticating documents, which eventually turned their relationship into a friendship. 1. $95k AVERAGE INCOME Our wealth data indicates income average is $95k. Im glad you found some of my remarks useful and thanks for the kind comments. As a Mormon History and Rare Document Researcher, Brent Metcalfe has unparalleled knowledge of the religion and its connections in Utah. Indeed, the trivial matters that many theists assert as claiming the attention of God (even as hell is meanwhilebreaking loose) is absurd evidently too absurd for many to even grasp. Simply put, I think JSs BoAbr project is an example of JSs *sincerity*, not his fraudulence. Its a band called The Lower Lights. That said, I have to wonder what planet hes living on when he says that Catholicism has been reinvigorated in the post Vatican II era. [9], As it began to be clearer that Hofmann was counterfeiting documents, Christensen and Kathy Sheets were murdered in an separate bombs created by Hofmann, and Hofmann himself was injured when a later bomb he created inadvertently exploded. A question for Brent, What are your thoughts on your research of the book of Abraham? Regardless of what one takes to be the truth of things, the evidence is not in favor of liberal religiosity as a recipe for church growth- those churches and communities which move away from their traditional truth claims tend to atrophy relatively speedily. He also talks about his early forays into Mormon studies. Gary at the time was an up-and-coming star because of his writing skills. Copyright 2005 - 2023 | Mormon Stories. So my question is, what if the effort for the book of Abraham was an attempt by JS and his close friends to deliver an esoteric masterpiece. The name sounds so familiar (I was a Wandsworth baptism as a teenager in 77). dave davies wife. :-) I really R E A L L Y loved the podcast, and will listen to it all again today. I remember how the church/BYU was trying to treat this as a non-issue. Or if you have any thoughts on this John? Good clarification, Doubting Thomas (if that is your real name), :) I have no reason to believe that Jerald Tanner attempted official contact, so Im not sure who Darrick is referring to or what the method of communication entailed. Billy Hibbard, for instance, who became a Methodist preacher, recounted: I thought how happy must Jesus Christ have been when he suffered for sinners. Were they watching us? Again, Im not sure that you would disagree with any of this. But Ashment, a fellow member of the church, said he was disgusted with those who publicly protested the church action at a rally for Murphy on Salt Lake City's Main Street plaza Sunday night. But before Brent could truly move on, he had to deal with the emotional turmoil of knowing that he was associated with Mark Hofmann. Yes! I am still cringing from the realizations about the lack of discernment and the deliberate efforts on the part of the GAs. Would that fit the time frame the book is given in? Three or four episodes were mentioned by John. In these two episodes we discuss: 1) The aftermath of the Mark Hofmann bombings, and Brent's. Over the years you just reason, that a faith shouldnt be that complicated. There is a newish movement who rejects that the book of mormon ever occurred in South America. On Wiwikipedia, it mentions that in a hit piece done by Dan Peterson, that he encodeds the message, Metcalfe is a butthead. What were your qurarrels like with FARMS? The church history claims there was a great uproar about this youth that claimed to have a vision of God. As a teenager and still TBM I read some books on the Hoffman Salamander Letter and events surrounding it. I just got done reading the book Mormon murders. This negative sentiment is perhaps made up for by Hofmann's victims. Signature Books. It all depends on the depth of study one does. Your excommunication reveals more about your accusers than it says about you. Brent_Metcalfe 7 yr. ago To clarify 4blockhead's list. I think youre referring to what has collectively come to be known as the Michigan Relics. James E Talmage wrote quite a bit about them, back in the day. Its probably best to start over when these things happen, rather than just continuing where you left off. Afraid that Brent would go public with the contradictory information, the LDS church terminated him as a member. Lex, the recommendation by Andrew is a good resource. My application of Vatican II was specifically intended for the work of Catholic biblical scholars, not Catholicism in toto. Whatever the reasons, thanks again for your research that revealed there was MTSTWIS (More-To-See-Than-What-I-Saw). fireside chat september 3, 1939 summary . Vol. Thank you. I havent listened to MS for several years now, but with Brent being interviewed I couldnt miss this, and I wasnt disappointed. Years ago, I attended a book reading and signing by Jon Krakauer in Marin County when he was promoting Under the Banner of Heaven. My good friend Matt Christensen digitized the 7th East Press and was kind enough to allow Signature Books to make it available on their incredible digital library. What historical issues does he think are most worthy of exploration, and how would he suggest young aspiring researchers go about gathering and parsing primary and secondary sources? [9][10] His father was the managing director of the Temple Department for the LDS Church. What would you say are the most significant developments in the critiques of the church in the past 20 years that didnt exist beforehand? Thank you so much for the story and the insights. Tom, have you considered allowing John to interview you? John, please interview Mark Hoffman someday if you can! He was enthusiastic about scholars allegedly validating his translations through secular methods (e.g., Charles Anthon on the BoMor characters and Michael Chandlers anonymous scholars on the BoAbr papyri). I have some insights into that. I thought you were very well spoken Brent. So sorry for the delay!!!! When discussing some of the details surrounding the Book of Abraham, he mentioned the Tale of Onidas and Kitumen. I have never heard of that before and cannot find anything about it. [7] The LDS Church fired Brigham Young University professor David Wright for his contribution to the volume, and excommunicated both Wright and Metcalfe shortly thereafter. Part two was chilling as details we have never heard about Mark Hoffman, Steve Christiansen come out. Long question, sorry ! If God will ultimately judge us all, why are mere mortals judging mortals, with the illusion of acting for God? It instead discusses the fact that the LDS Church keeps some documents secret. They even go so far as to claim that Zarahemla was directly across the river from Nauvoo, and that the waters of mormon are Big Springs, MO. It is not possible for me to tell how long I remained in that situation, as everything earthly was gone from me for some time. Thanks for the clarification, Brent. Wow John, what an interview. Growing up as a full believer, Brent followed the conventional routine and did the missions, after which he spent a lot of time in the historical archives of the Church, researching documents and working with the security department. I had a similar reaction to the section about ADD. What do you attribute this decline to? Ive always wondered why the most ardently orthodox and pious seem to have the least faith in the divinity and omnipotence of the Lords plan. Thanks Brent for your sincerity, honesty and pleasant demeanor in which you talk about these things. I also wanted to tell you how disturbed I became to my very core about the way you were treated during your working for the church Then the description of the events of day of the bombings, where the meeting was still set with the GA! Brent H Metcalf, 71 Resides in Salt Lake City, UT Lived In Sandy UT Related To Kyle Metcalf, Molly Metcalf, Kristy Metcalf, Nicole Metcalf Includes Address (3) Phone (4) Email (3) See Results Brent Charles Metcalf, 55 Resides in Lowell, AR Lived In Modesto CA, Oroville CA, Bonney Lake WA Also known as Gary Brent, Metcalf Brent ping anser putter 85068 value; italian village commission. Published by on October 31, 2021. I clearly remember the frustration in her voice. Do you attend church anyplace else? [9] Metcalfe became a suspect himself at one point in time. Why didnt the church just pay for their own documents? And great questions John. "[10], Naifeh, S., & Smith, G. W. (2005). Tom Phillips, Simon Southerton, Brent Metcalfe, Jeremy Runnells, Grant Palmer, etc. Im curious who is singing Lead Kindly Light in this its beautiful. D&C 76:2021). Learn how your comment data is processed. Before Mark Hoffman was exposed as a forger, was there anything that made you wonder how he managed to make so many great finds? I discovered New Approaches to the Book of Mormon back in 2002-03. location 502, 899, 5027 of 9578, Last edited on 26 December 2022, at 05:30, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, "The LDS intellectual community and church leadership: A contemporary chronology", BOOK OF MORMON SCHOLARS UNLEASH SALVO OF BARBS, "MAPPING BOOK OF MORMON HISTORICITY DEBATESPART I", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brent_Lee_Metcalfe&oldid=1129585083, This page was last edited on 26 December 2022, at 05:30. And am I the only one who likes the older music better? It was so amazing to hear another person explain nearly my identical experience. Were they hiding behind Christensen for some reason? Dont know who the nuts are that Church Security referred to, but Jerald Tanner probably expressed the most legitimate concerns. All he had to say publicly if there was really no truth in it, was its simply not true and leave it at that. This was an excellent broadcast! Netflixs Murder Among the Mormons is a limited series that profiles the exploits of Mark Hofmann, who planned and executed a deadly event in Salt Lake City, Utah, that left the Latter-day Saints Church shaken to its very core. Its likely that our paths could have crossed. Brent is a fascinating interview for Mormon Stories for many reasons, including: He knew forger and bomber Mark Hofmann personally. Shortly after returning home and leaving the church he was very active in Sunstone and various things of that nature, but has since moved on with his life and seems very happy with a small family of his own running a small restaurant he and his older brother own together. You didnt elaborate on that interpretation. Thanks again Brent for sharing a sketch of your life with us. When Brent Metcalfe compiled a book of essays last year suggesting that Mormonism's founding scripture wasn't the ancient history it purports to be, he expected some criticism. I happened to not do soat least, not yet. Lynn Jacobs was looked at carefully, I believe Brent Metcalf was looked at somewhat. 0% MARRIED Jn Looking forward to the interview! But such intellectual issues didnt play a role in my failure of faith. Best wishes, Brent! (The audio starts in Part 1 around 1:23.55) I did a little research and found a digitized & searchable copy of Elias Smiths autobiography. This is a rumor I heard. Cultural Context Preceding the Book of Mormon. Brent, are you still working on a Book of Abraham book? Read More: Where is Terri Christensen Now? He also discusses the events leading up to, and including, his excommunication. This doesn't mean that Metcalfe has accurately translated that theory into his study of things Mormon. Brent Metcalf of the USA defeats Franklin Maren of Cuba to win Gold in the Men's 65kg Freestyle Final during the Toronto 2015 Pan Am Games at the. Awesome music, right? Leave a Reply Cancel reply. !Cmoninstead, they were duped arranged for major amounts of $ to buy the letter up,bury it and then lie. This is the part Im most interested in: how would he suggest young aspiring researchers go about gathering and parsing primary and secondary sources?. What are your views about these books and how some contemporary Mormon scholars approach them as catalytic for revelation, though they may not specifically be historical? In 1994, Professor David Wright of Brandeis University and editor Brent Metcalf were excommunicated for their scripture studies in New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology In 1995, author Janice Allred was excommunicated for her writings about Mother in Heaven. What academic qualifications does Mr. Metcalfe have to authoritatively speak on subjects like the historicity of the Book of Abraham? In Part 6, we talk to Brent about his interactions and run-ins with prominent Mormon apologists like Daniel Peterson, Lou Midgley and others. In this fascinating conversation Brent details that while working for Church security he was working on scholarly endeavors that he hoped would help contribute to apologitic defenses of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Oh, that would be great! That piqued my interest in the whole sordid affair. For one thing, you were damn good at martial arts. Do you still attend LDS church? Will there be more? Many of the writers did become illustrious personalities, exactly as you point out. In Part 4, Brent examines some of the issues surrounding traditional approaches to the Book of Mormon. Brent did a marvelous job of creating a context by which these events took place. On the term translation, JS promoted his ancient texts as translations in the traditional sense. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Broad topics include my excommunication plus BoMor and BoAbr research. All rights reserved. What about your book did the church find cause to excommunicate you? Ive followed Mormon stories for several years now and listed to most of the episodes and this interview with Brent Metcalfe is in my top 5 MS podcasts. Rude Dog Never fear! Doxey denied asking about Metcalfe. As soon as we can! Metcalfe (ed. She was excommunicated for it and it was ironic that her uncle, David O'McKay, was a member of the twelve apostles at the time (and later became Prophet.) I felt like somehow I was responsible for what had happened. How have things changed over the decades? I have never heard of the description that its like talking to someone in the airport on their cell phone, with all the background noise. I am very excited to announce that I will soon be interviewing Brent Metcalfe. In fact, it may just be possible that I stood right next to Brent during our official kick off meeting, when Elbert invited his brother Lyle to give us all a magic show. Who does he think the last bomb was meant for? I will start my question with a short story to add some perspective. But this podcast is filled with way more than you will get in the book or documentary. He is their emotional support and Sue's constant companion, her voice, advocate and her angel. If Krakauer can interview Dan Lafferty, it might be possible. Hibbard later had a dream in which he again. [4] Metcalfe had become an ardent supporter of the counterfeited Salamander letter, and hired by Christensen to research the letter. Brent Metcalf, age 31, Kingsport, TN Lived in: Greeneville TN, Elizabethton TN, Louisville TN Relatives: Terri Treadway, Kathy Edens, Douglas Metcalf View full report Brent E Metcalf, age 39, Semmes, AL Lived in: Wilmer AL, Theodore AL Relatives: Beverly Metcalf, Thomas Metcalf, Thomas Metcalf View full report She was very impressed with the level of esoteric teachings in the D&C and Pearl of Great price. He had not let on that the 7th East Press was his brainchild. All it is is a continuation of the pain, Brent further added. If Catholicism were ultimately true, for example, then in the final accounting its dogmatic claims would not be hamstringing- they would serve as a clarifying lens through which to analyze historical questions, a lens which helps the believing scholar from wasting his time investigating a false path. What is not to love about Johns revelation of your worthy biceps? Biography [ edit] As a prep wrestler, Metcalf went undefeated with a career record of 228-0, won four consecutive Michigan state titles, and earned six junior national titles. Im definitely a fan. Is there going to be a part 3? [4] Metcalfe assisted Hofmann in leaking the existence of the letter to the press, contrary to the wishes of the LDS Church. But I feel that sometimes secular scholars, perhaps in an effort to be diplomatic, perhaps for other reasons, underestimate and understate the inevitability of open conflict with a religious tradition they study. In other words, if it is an intrinsic aspect of a tradition to make historical claims or assertions about the underlying nature of the world, the falsification of those claims essentially undermines the character of that tradition. Did you ever suspect there was something not quite right with Mark Hoffman? Since unit growth of the church is now in decline and growing slower than U.S. and world population growth, how do you see the future of the church and its doctrines? [4], In 1993 Metcalfe organized a group of scholars to publish a series of essays that sought to apply techniques of higher criticism to the Book of Mormon. They buried the Mclellin diaries also.similar thingdidnt like the content. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_relics. Brent had some trouble remembering the details of the events (so did I, and I wasnt there, although I read all of the relevant literature at the time), but I think this is a very good summing up by Jerald Tanner, Confessions of a White Salamander: https://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/trackingconfessions1.htm. Brent, We were not suppose to discuss the Temple, Blacks and Priesthood, and of course definitely not curtain parts of the church history such as polygamy and polyandry. John and I recorded an additional four hours (till 1 AM). I know about the September 6 and there are others. In Part 5, we explore the history surrounding Joseph Smith and the Book of Abraham(one of the primary scriptural texts for the LDS Church). So yes, Brent, please comment on this phenomenon. What advice does Brent have for aspiring Mormon historians? Liked by Brent Metcalfe Experience Practice Lead - Mergers and Acquisitions/Investment Group and Consultant Backswath Management Sep 2022 - Present6 months Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Seeking New. It didnt have anything to do with church history or anything you would read in something like the CES letter, but was instead a realization and acceptance that its not me, its the church followed by a complete collapse of everything. Thank you Brandt for sharing your experiences. Research into the origins or Christianity strongly suggest that there are no babies only bathwater. Joseph Smiths myth-making leveraged Christian myth-making at the dawn of higher criticism. Pardon me for not commenting on LDS church history, but to be honest Ive read it or heard it all and have moved on. I struggled in school with learning how to read for years and this resulted in me developing crippling anxiety any time I was aced to read in public. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment.